Are the Pokemon Silcoon and Cascoon actually identical?
Recently I saw a post on reddit stating that Silcoon and Cascoon are identical in battle mechanically speaking due to the fact that their stats, abilities, moveset, and typing are identical. Someone in the comments pointed out that this isn’t technically true since they do have a slightly different weight. And there are situations where Pokémon with different weights can be affected differently in battle. So, I got really curious and decided to find out exactly the competitive difference between Silcoon and Cascoon in a Pokémon battle.
To start things off, we can see that Cascoon is 1.5 kg heavier than Silcoon. This is an insignificant amount and out of the literal duodecillions (number with 39 zeroes) of possible interactions in a Pokémon battle, it’s pretty much negligible. But even 1 out of a duodecillion isn’t a zero. We also want to point out that in gen 3, very briefly, Silcoon had a slightly lower base experience yield. So, it is possible that Cascoon will level up quicker in battle and thus obtain better stats. So technically this is a difference in battling viability, as it is possible to level up mid battle (granted it isn’t a competitive battle such as PVP or other EXP-less battles). We will mostly ignore this fact and focus on the difference in weight between the two Pokémon.
First, we need to find out exactly what scenarios does the weight affect the tide of battle. One move is Sky Drop, in which Pokémon over a certain weight range will be unaffected by the move. But both Silcoon and Cascoon are so light that’s not even an issue we need to worry about. Another two sets of moves depend on Pokémon weight are Low Kick and Grass Knot.
Low Kick and Grass Knot deal a set amount of damage depending on weight. But unfortunately, both Silcoon and Cascoon are within the 10.0–24.9 kg range so the moves have no quantifiable difference when used on the two.
So, this leaves us with the moves Heat Crash, and Heavy Slam.
These two moves differ in that they aren’t dependent on a set weight value but rather relative to the weights of two Pokémon. Since these two moves calculate damage based on the weight of both the user and target Pokémon, we would have to do some math to find out exactly which Pokémon have a weight that will have a different effect in battle with Silcoon and Cascoon.
Before we start looking through the list of all Pokémon that can learn those two moves and organizing them by weight, we also have to consider several other factors. The most significant of which is other mechanics that affect weight. This includes the abilities Heavy Metal and Light Metal, the item Float Stone, and the move Autotomize. For the sake of my sanity, we will only consider situations where Autotomize is used once, as it can be used multiple times to reduce a Pokémon’s weight. In order to determine which heavy Pokémon that will be able to fit in an overlap region we will have to manually select calculate, which shouldn’t be too difficult as the number of Pokémon that can learn Autotomize isn’t too large.
Now keep in mind we do still want to explore EVERY possible difference in a Pokémon battle so that includes obscure scenarios that normally would not happen. In doubles battles, you can easily transfer abilities of Pokémon onto others. So we will act under the assumption that every Pokémon has the ability to have Heavy Metal or Light Metal. In the end, we have a total of 8 combinations of possible scenarios where a weight falls into the appropriate ranges.
1. Silcoon and Cascoon getting hit by a normal opponent
2. Silcoon and Cascoon holding the Float Stone getting hit by a normal opponent or Silcoon and Cascoon getting hit by a Heavy Metal opponent
3. Silcoon and Cascoon getting hit by an opponent who has Light Metal/holds FS
4. Silcoon and Cascoon getting hit by an opponent who used Autotomize
5. Silcoon and Cascoon getting hit by an opponent who used Autonomize and has Heavy Metal
6. Silcoon and Cascoon getting hit by an opponent who used Autonomize and has Light Metal/Float Stone
7. Silcoon and Cascoon with Float Stone getting hit by opponent who used Autotomize
8. Silcoon and Cascoon holding Float Stone getting hit by opponent who used Autotomize and also has Heavy Metal
* It is important to note that the Light Metal ability does not appear to stack with the Float Stone, so the enemy cannot reduce their weight by a factor of 4 at a time
In the table below, you can see what Pokémon weight ranges Silcoon and Cascoon would receive different damage values from under normal conditions. Say an opponent with the weight of 43 were to attack Silcoon with Heat Crash, the attack base power would be 100. Meanwhile a Cascoon receiving the same attack would only experience an attack with a base power of 80.
Basically, we will have to manually check for every Pokémon that can learn either Heat Crash or Heavy slam that has a weight that fits into one of the overlap ranges shown above. We will be able to limit ourselves to 5.1 kg through 115 kg. Any Pokémon above that should only be checked if they know the move Autotomize.
In case you thought this is all we have to do then you are surely mistaken. Because I hate myself, I’ve also decided that in addition to checking the weights of every Pokémon that can learn Heat Crash and Heavy Slam, I will ALSO be checking the weights of every Pokémon that can learn moves that might cause them to call upon those moves. This includes moves like Metronome, Assist, Copycat, and Sketch. In scenarios such as double battles or carefully planned out singles battles, these moves can all be used to allow other Pokémon call upon Heat Crash and Heavy Slam despite them normally not being able to. We do not need to worry about moves like Mirror Move or Me First, as they require the target to first use the desired move. So, we will never be able to target Silcoon and Cascoon with Heat Crash or Heavy Slam using Mirror Move/Me First since they themselves cannot use those moves.
Table 1: Heat Crash/Heavy Slam Pokémon that will make a difference
To start things off, we have a total of 94 Pokémon (including alternate forms like mega evolution and regional variants) that can naturally learn either Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, or both. fifty of those are within the weight range of 5.1 and 115 kg. Of those 50, 20 fit within the overlap regions. These Pokémon are the ones that will have a quantifiable difference in battle when battling Silcoon and Cascoon. There are 9 more Pokémon above the 115 kg mark that can learn Autotomize and can theoretically still be within one of the base overlap regions. It is unknown how consecutive Autotomizes work with abilities and items such as Float Stone and Heavy Metal. Lairon and Forrestress only require one Autotomize in order to land in an overlap region. Alolan Golem is able to land in an overlap region using only Autotomize without the use of items or abilities. The rest however require either an item or an ability to reach an overlap region.
Assuming the weight for damage calculation is determined as follows:
Until I can figure out the exact mechanics of Autotomize’s relation to weight manipulating items/abilities, we can only guarantee 23 Pokémon who have a different outcome when attacking Silcoon and Cascoon with Heat Crash and Heavy Slam.
While Snorlax cannot learn Autotomize naturally, it is able to use the move Metronome. And we I did say we were going to explore EVERY possibility. So highlighted in yellow, it remains as one of the possible Pokémon interactions that will make a difference in damage dealt to Silcoon and Cascoon.
Table 2: Every Pokémon that can use Heat Crash/Heavy Slam indirectly
There are far more Pokémon out there that can learn Metronome, Assist, Copycat, and Sketch. Above is a table of 120 Pokémon that can learn those moves long with all their weights listed. Most of these Pokémon are under 115 kg, so Autotomize isn’t required. Of the three that are over 115 kg, none can naturally learn Autotomize. Though technically all three can use Metronome so they are still listed as possibilities. Going by this table we can see that there are 66 Pokémon that can indirectly use weight dependent moves that affect Silcoon and Cascoon differently.
Conclusion (TL;DR)
In conclusion, Silcoon and Cascoon function almost identically in battle (ignoring for that brief moment in gen 3 with the EXP difference) except for a total of 89 scenarios where some heavy thicc Pokémon using Heat Crash or Heavy Slam will deal different amounts of damage to the poor bug type duo due to the fact that Cascoon is slightly heavier than Cascoon. The Pokémon Phanpy, Duraludon, Blaziken, Pignite, and Shieldon are able to naturally achieve this effect but through the use of items, moves, and abilities, there are nearly 100 scenarios where poor Silcoon gets hit slightly harder than his brother Cascoon.
